Instead of bumping an old thread, I thought I'd put this up for questions and comments about the mod. Chris might not be here to answer them but others surely can try. As of right now, MTTIV is still technically in beta stage, but it is very stable and won't mess up your game.

"This post in intended to be a complete explination of MTT for those who are interested.

Which version should I use?

I would say get IV : http://www.cs.okstate.edu/~woodsc/mtt/mtt4b.zip It is very stable.


Tell me about Necromancy

The MTT Necromancy system is a merger between complexity and elegance, or an attempt thereof. Ressurecting the dead is straightforward, and can be done in 30 seconds, but there are a lot of choices to make that can draw out the ritual for more hardcor eplayers.

Those that just want some minions can make them easily by just using all of the same type of candle and get a vanilla Fighter, Theif or Mage but others may want to delve deeply into the system and determine how to make things like Clerics, Spellswords, Assassin, etc.

The minions use the same basic character generation model your character did, so you can make a similar number of different minions as you could characters. Instead of "Race" you have types of undead, and instead of "Signs" you have words of power.

Finally, it is designed to be immersive and "fell" like necromancy. As such, you never shoose dialog options/select boxes but instead physically draw a pentagram, place candles, and complete a ritual that results inyour new minion.

Minions have a significant number of special AI routines, such as the ability to heal eachother, sneak, flank targets, and buff eachother.


What else does MTT add?

This is a comprenhisive list of the types of items added in MTT. For each item type, there are about 20 variations that function the same from a user interface standpoint, but have different effects and are therefore more/less tactically useful depending on character class and situation:

Ioun Stones-

Ioun Stones are like any peice of equipment in that you drop them on your paper doll and then you're using them. However, they do not use up one of Morrowinds EQ slots, but instead a special one. When used, they float around you (this can be seen on your character in 3rd person view) and convey their benifits. There are over 40 different Ioun Stones, and each gives unique abilities. ie- a Red stone gives you +5 Strength +5 Endurance.

You can only use one at a time.


Charms-

Charms are like potions, except that you can turn their effects on and off at will. When you use a charm, you get it's benefits until it's duration runs out or you use the charm again to stop it. As such, a charm with 900 seconds of magicka regen can be spread out over a characters lifetime, letting you use 25 seconds here and another 15 there, etc.


Sarah Stones-

Grenades. They're basically handgrenades.


Shard Weapons and Armor-

Items forged from Crystal shard are very brittle (less durability and damage/protection then Chitan) but they have an enchantment potential higher then Daedric. As such, you can put the most powerful enchantments in Shard items but unenchanted they are basically worthless.


Sceptors-

Sceptors are torches that convey special powers on the holder, such as the ability to see enemies from very far away or the ability to create zones of "darkness" to hide in. You can not use the powers granted by a sceptor and a shield at the same time, so you have to decide which is more appropriate.


Manabolts-

Amunition for bows and crossbows that deliver pure magic damage and have no weight.


Linked Items-

Alone, these items do nothing. It isn't until brought together their abilities are shown. A pair of linked gloves, for example, will make you remarkably adept with your hands, but only if you can find both gloves.


Foci-

A new breed of magic, channeling. You select spells (ie- "restore health") and channel them by turning them on and off at your will. This way, you can channel shielding spells and turn them off as soon as combat is over rather then trying to predict how long a shield spell will be necessary. As such, channeling is measured in magicka/second rather then magicka/casting. It is a free, instantanious action to turn a channel on and off and they can become very complex. The cost/second of a channel is dependant on your skill in the appropriate realm of magicka.


Emblems-

Like Ioun Stones, this is a peice of equipment with it's own special "equipment slot". Emblems only work in certain conditions, which you have to figure out. One might, for example, make you partially invisible but only when your feet aren't touching the ground. It's up to the character to figure out how to make an Emblem "start", and then how to maximize that situation.


Sigils-

Sigils replace a shield, and they develop power the longer you hold them. If you equip a shield, the sigil "resets" meaning you will have to start developing it all over again. As such, to fully power a sigil you will need to give up ever using a shield. They are designed primarly for swashbuckler types who want to melee but don't like using a shield.


Unset Rings-

Rings created by enchanting the gemstones rather then the ring directly, these items have the potential to contain an enchantment several times greater then a ring ever could, however you have to go out and find these special stones and put them back into the ring, one by one, until it reaches its full abilities.


Threads-

Threads are a nod to the days of Daggerfall, when you could take upon armor/weapon restrictions and gain other benefits. When you weave a thread, you have to chose something you can no longer weild or wear, such as heavy armor or blunt weapons. From then on, you gain the benefits of the thread but will lose them, permamently, if you ever violate the conditions of the weaving. When equipping an illegal item, you are reminded so you don't accidently break a thread.


Contengencies-

Another new system of spellcasgint, Contengencies are all about casting the spell long before it is needed, up to several years if necessary. When you set up a contengency, you indicate what you want to trigger it ("when I'm at 50% health" for example) and what you want it to do ("heal me and make me invisible" is a good idea). Then, at some time further down the road when the situation occurs the contengency automatically fires, often saving you.


Artifacts-

Artifacts are more items to explore rather then items to make you uber. My concept of artifacts is items that are really powerful, but there is usually something quirky involved in getting that power. Maybe you need to keep the artifact wet, maybe it demands you pay attention to it, or maybe you have to feed it rats. There is something "odd" about the artifact you must explore and unlock before you can really put it to use.


Dungeons-

MTT adds 3 hand-made dungeons, with complicated puzzles and scripts. Thank Amazing_Amobea4 for these.


Books-

MTT adds, literally, 37 unique stories and books to read. They are a good way to better understand the trinkets inthe game an are very well written to boot. Thanks FofA, FallingStar, OldeCow69, Iudas, and Panthera for the ones currently in distrubution, with 4 new authors writing books for IV (as well as a return from some of the previous authors.)


Is MTT compatable with (MODNAME)?

Yes, for all values of MODNAME.


Do I need to do any special preperation, such as levelled list mergers or object consoladators to use MTT?

No, MTT is totally plug and play, so to speak.


Do I need MTT I or MTT II to use MTT III? Do I need III to use IV?

No, in fact you should only use the most recent MTT. MTT II has everything I did, III has all of II and I in it, and IV contains III, II, and I.


Other questions welcome.

Chris Woods"

I do like this mod and how it works, even though it seems that the trinkets almost monopolize nearly all the loot boxes in the bandit caves. Is there a way to make the trinkets appear less frequently, or does this just happen late in the game at a high player level? (I installed MTTIV when my character's level was about 40+, and hadn't started any new characters yet).

Tim (aka the Slipperman)

Is this mod still being worked on because it was taken off of the summit...

I'm using MTT3, and I had the same problem. They were dominating all smuggler caves at any level. I remerged and resequenced the lvl lists and now I'm having a hard time finding any MTT stuff.

Oh well. I love my Pink Ioun stone.

Chris did put out a half loot esp for MTT III for those who felt like they were getting too many items. But with MTT IV, he redid the distribution method for the items, thus making them more random and not as easy to obtain. I would say go with MTT IV now.

Leveled list mergers and resequencers won't do anything to this mod since it doesn't alter the leveled lists at all. It's all done by scripting.

Is chris anywhere to be found?

Yup, he sure is. He was active on this forum "Yesterday, 02:17 AM" so he's most definitely around, just keeping a low profile.

mmmm yea that might happen but only in bandit cave loot boxes, well a least for me... And im using MTTIV, i think its a bit more dificult to get the stuff here How about a spoiler for linked items (at least, the other things would be nice 2)?

Spoilers eh? I would suggest reading the in game books, they give lots of hints and tips about such items. Part of the fun, at least for me, is figuring out how to actually work said items to unleash their powers.

A tiny bump to add information that wasn't included in the first post.

Disguises:
Disguises allow theives to have "temporary crime" that is associated with the disguise instead of the PC. When you wear a disguise, any crime you commit is only associated with the disguise and will "vanish" when you take off the disguise.

There is a maximum amount of crime a disguise can displace, which is directly determined based on your Speechcraft skill. Bad speakers won't be able to steal so much as a dagger while really amazing speakers could get away with murder.

This post has been edited by FofA: Mar 29 2005, 04:14 AM

and well, if you have a bounty on your head, and use a disguise, does that allow you to walk in the streets without being harassed by guards?

This is precisely my problem lately, the use of AddToLevItem seems to wipe out the merged leveled lists! My character can find items in barrel_bandit_01 until level 2 or 3, after which no items will ever be found aside from Magical Trinkets(picture an entire smuggler cave stuffed with Magical Trinkets!) I just modified the MTT4 scripts to comment out anything regarding "random_bandit_1-5", now all the items show up as expected, implying that the use of AddToLevItem cleared the leveled lists. Maybe because this is a merged leveled list?

yup, just did another test with nothing but the MTTIV esp, and as soon as I hit level 3 all barrel_bandit_01 instances yield nothing but Magical Trinkets.

This post has been edited by Shanjaq: Mar 29 2005, 09:15 PM

hhmmmmmm...this is very interesting. I'm not sure what to say about this. I haven't encountered or heard anybody have this problem with version IV before. Version III, yes, trinkets were all over the place, but I thought he corrected the issue. Chris, might need you to pop in and answer this one.

StanRex, yes that's correct, depending on how high your speechcraft skill is and how good the disguise is.

This post has been edited by FofA: Mar 29 2005, 11:52 PM

Have you tried changing the probability that trinkets show up? That's what I did, and it seems to work for the most part. At level 20, a smugglers cave filled with the crates only holds about 2 or 3 trinkets.

how did you tweak the probability? there's no readme in the MTT4b.zip =p

Also, did those crates contain an unusually low number of items overall?

In the leveled list section of the CS there should be a thing called "Chance None" in the menu for each list, which is how frequent certain monsters, items, etc show up...you might be able to change the frequency of the MTT trinkets by changing the number to a higher one.

This post has been edited by lochnarus: Mar 30 2005, 12:29 PM

Loch, it doesn't use an actual levelled list, it uses a scripted version. Chris was aware of the problem (namely, that it makes ONLY Trinkets be found in the affected containers, one of the types of smuggler loot barrels). Unfortunately, Chris hasn't been seen in a long time (though apparently he was 'active' a few days ago?)... Wish he'd drop us a post or send someone a PM just to let us know what's going on with the mod.

As I remember, this happened with vIII, which was a closed beta. After about three (or was it six?) months, the beta testers decided to patch it up as best they could and release it. A long while after that, Chris appeared again, and released the official version of III (he also thanked the beta testers for releasing the beta, he considered this a wise move in his absence, if I remember correctly) and began work on IV. IV created quite an uproar (something like 700 posts regarding the mod in a 24 hour period - the REL thread actually reached like 500 before the mods even saw it, as it was released at like 3 in the morning). He continued to work on IV using the feedback he received for a while, getting up to Hotel version. After Hotel version, he disappeared.

And thus is the history of the Magical Trinkets of Tamriel as it is known by me.

Well then I have no idea.

Sound like a job for Super Scripter.

Well, the way to do it (I think) would be to instead of scripting it so that they are added to Levelled Lists, instead script them (with level restrictions) to be added to containers randomly. This would be easy to do (this is what faarp's Weapon Compilation does, I believe, and it actually adds those items to those chests even with MTTIVBETA screwing with the levelled lists). The problem is that it would be very time consuming to script, and also the items would be added ON TOP of whatever was already in the chest (the other method, if it worked as one would suppose it SHOULD, would sometimes have a Trinket in the place of another item. Unfortunately, it wiped out the possibility of something else altogether).

In short, it doesn't require a Super Scripter, it requires someone competent with Script and with a lot of time.

That's an unnecessarily complicated way of going about it, and one with more than its share of flaws - the major being that it wouldn't support containers with new IDs added by mods. Unless I'm mistaken, Faarp's Weapon Compilation simply uses scripts to modify the levelled lists, as Chris has done.

What if someone just put them in the leveled lists and removed the scripts?

I believe that woud work, in theory. Sounds like a feasible idea, just as long as the only scripts modified or removed were related to adding the items into the game world.

And MTT IV doesn't have an official readme since it's still beta so chris didn't include one, but III's readme covers most of what's in IV. The main new part of IV is the greatly improved necromancy, where you actually have to perform a ritual to raise the dead.

I've got a question. In the script that adds trinkets to the levelled lists... Does the command RemoveFromLevItem with a value of -1 remove all trinkets from that levelled list, or does it remove just one instance of that item?

edit: nvm, figured it out.

This post has been edited by Habile: Mar 31 2005, 04:24 AM

O. Then... why doesn't Chris's work? Faarp's does... I haven't investigated the scripting of either mod, so I'm not really sure now...


Well, yes, of course that would work, but Chris was trying to make it so that MTT did not conflict with any other mod, and therefore didn't want to do that. Of course, Levelled List Mergers are standard equipment for mod users these days, so I don't think it is a big deal, but Chris may not want to do that.

*scratches his head* I really don't see what's wrong with his script. Every time you load your game, it removes the trinkets from levelled lists and then adds them back again, insuring that they're there, and that there aren't duplicates. Hey, what if the RemoveFromLevItem command isn't working like it should? Would that cause the trinkets to keep building up in levelled lists?

The mod actually seems to work pretty well for me. I don't receive an excessive number of trinkets, and I haven't noticed a lack of regular items.

Actually, in a new game, it's been working OK (actually for a while I was seeing a dearth of them, I was worried TESTool had screwed it up, but now I'm starting to see a few, and... I think I've seen non-Trinkets... though the last cave I went in was a bit (more than a bit, actually) excessive...

Lol, aw sheesh... It seems so obvious now. He scripted everything perfectly, it's just a small "mistake" on bethesda's part. You'll notice that every thing works like it should until you hit level 6. This is because the random smuggled goods for levels 1-5 is set up differently than 6-10 and 11+.

In 1-5, 'calculate from all levels <= PC's level' is checked. In the others, it isn't. So it will only use what ever happens to be the highest level item in the list.

I think that's pretty much it. Though, I'll have to check it out a little more before I'm sure.

edit: I think the answer to the problem is to only add the trinkets to 6-10 and 11+ if the player is equal to or greater than the trinket's level, and add the trinket to the list as a level 1 item. But I've never scripted in my life, so I have no clue.

This post has been edited by Habile: Mar 31 2005, 01:53 PM

I could really use some help here. I tried changing the script myself, and now Morrowind won't run for more than half a second without crashing.

This is what I've done so far... but it's not working too well.

Alright guys, it appears to be working. I ran through the cave near the Seyda Neen silt strider three times and I only found one trinket. That was at level twenty. I'm going to check it out some more to make sure it's working. I'll try uploading it to a private page just for a little extra testing... Does that sound like something Chris would be against?

This post has been edited by Habile: Mar 31 2005, 03:48 PM

I'd test it for sure! anything to cure this game-breaking situation for my character =p

Sure thing. I'll pm the link to you. Just tell me if you think they're too rare, though I kind of like it that way. It makes them seem really special. (I haven't changed the percentages, just the part that made them the only thing to appear in crates.)

I don't... THINK this would upset Chris. But I can't speak for him, obviously. Anyway, one Trinket at level 20? I dunno, that seems like it migtht be TOO rare... But awesome that you got it working.

That's one trinket after three visits, lol. They can be made much more common if you like it that way. It's just that after exploring a hundred smuggler/bandit caves you'll really pick up a lot of them. That cave in seyda neen only had two of the crates with the levelled lists in it.

edit: Oh yeah, his script also adds them to the special levelled list, which is used everywhere. So, you have a VERY small chance of finding them in most of the other crates, chests and barrels.... other than the smuggler, bandit and tomb ones.

edit: Man... just deleted my avatar while cleaning up my files...

This post has been edited by Habile: Mar 31 2005, 04:38 PM

Well, certain trinkets (linked items, unfinished rings, sigils, scepters, threads, shard items) should be rare, but others (Ioun stones, Manabolts, Sarah Stones, disguises) should be more common, as they either are used up or are rather specific.

wanka

Ooh, good point. Perhaps Sarah Stones can be added to atranachs. I believe he did that in MTT III. And yeah, Manabolts should be very common, I hadn't thought about that, though I wouldn't know how to go about it. This is the first time I've attempted to do anything in the construction set.

ok I've just tested it. I used "placeatpc barrel_bandit_01 1,0,0" and created a huge line of containers and used "player->setlevel 1", then inspected each barrel, finding the occasional Magical Trinket. I used setlevel up to level 5 and noticed that Magical Trinkets could be found.

However, any level above level 6 yielded not a single Magical Trinket no matter how many barrels I spawned. At least now I can see regular Morrowind items past level 3 =][

Hmm... I'll check out the bandit list again... brb.

edit: That's odd. The those barrels should still use the 1-5 list at level 6, but have a higher chance of using the 6-10 list. Still looking...

another edit: Did you change your level, then save and reload? Because I don't think setlevel actually changes your level until you reload, but I'm not sure. Besides, it seems the method that I used will only work if you save and reload whenever you level up, since the script only runs upon loading your game.

This post has been edited by Habile: Mar 31 2005, 04:57 PM

ah I see, hmm... maybe the script could run once a day?

I'll try saving and reloading though.


edit: yup, I see trinkets at levels >= 6 if I save and reload. Getting close to a solution, good work!

This post has been edited by Shanjaq: Mar 31 2005, 05:16 PM

Hey that's a good idea. Maybe we could split the startscript up and have it run when... err... I really need to learn how to script. It seems like so much fun.

Will this method of adding items to levelled list conflict with SrisAlchemy mod? The readme for Srisalchemy said that any mod that directly adds to containers will conflict with it.

From the readme:

It shouldn't, because Chris adds his items to levelled lists through scripting too. Nothing direct.

Would it take a lot of processor time to constantly check one or two if statements?

*whacks his forehead for not using the edit button*

This post has been edited by Habile: Mar 31 2005, 05:25 PM

It would not take a lot of processor time to constantly check two hundred if statements.

Well, that's a relief. Now I won't be scared to use a few repeating scripts, thanks.

erm ok. I ve ran into a problem using MTTIV : the ioun stones :

I found one (a pale purple I think) in a bandit cave. I equiped it : and thought : great, it gives me sanctuary. But I hope the lightning shield effect is going to cease soon. Well, in fact, the lightning shield effect is always visible while the ioun stone is equipped.

I find the lightining shield effect very disturbing when in first person and it slaughters my fps (I d say it drops them by 5). Would you happen to know how to edit MTTIV to remove the visual effect while keeping the ioun stone equiped?

Do you have any mods that change magic at all? Such as the Adventurers mod?

edit: MTT IV is supposed to change the look of the lightning shield spell, which is now called the Lightning Shield / Ioun spell . It's supposed to look like a small bobbing stone above your head. If any other mod changes the spell, I assume it will go back to the way it was.

This post has been edited by Habile: Apr 1 2005, 08:00 AM

MTT isn't working too well for me. Apparently, you shouldn't change what levelled lists a container uses during gameplay. It seems to create an alternate container with new items generated inside it. Change back to the old levelled lists, and you've got your old items back in the container.

Originally, Chris had all the levelled lists set to their final stats at level one, but that caused the massive amounts of trinkets after level 6. I tried changing it so that when you gain levels, new levelled lists get shuffled into appropriate existing levelled lists. However, this causes the problem I described above.

Has anyone experienced this before, or know how to fix it?

I tried to rename the original file a little.

http://www.cs.okstate.edu/~woodsc/mtt/mtt4b.zip
(I think this one was the original V4 Beta)

http://www.cs.okstate.edu/~woodsc/mtt/mtt4besp.zip
(I remeber this one, but is it a Beta2 or Alpha1?)

So ehh wich one should one use, if one wanted the latest version?
(I cant remeber in wich order these were posted, sorry)

I think you have to go to the "magic effects" menu as well as the game settings menu. You can basically go into "details" on the screen where you select the mods and delete those entries.

Download mtt4b.zip. That's the full one, and has the latest esp. The other file is just the latest esp. That was there so people didn't have to download the full beta each time a new one came out.

EDIT: And it's not MTT that's the problem with spell effects. He most likely has another mod that's changing Ioun Stone's effect back to the lightning effect. I THINK if you open up MTT in the construction set and just save it, it should fix it, though I'm not positive.

This post has been edited by Habile: Apr 2 2005, 01:00 AM

Thanks for the answer, only one Zip left that I remeber and that was the Hotel version (It seems to be removed, but MTT works well like it is)

Tough I have yet to find any good MTT stuff.
(Well that is my mistake for having a to low character level currently)

It is a really good mod and rather balanced as well.
(Have a full set of shard armor and a longsword currently - wee)

Hotel is still the latest version. At least, that's what the mod's comment says on it.

What level are you by the way? Level 5 maybe?

So, what is the URL to this latest version? I'm running 3 right now, but it seems the Necromancy is better in 4, more customizable. Is it, and is that the only major change?

While the real version of IV was going (is going?) to have some other features, the BETA only has the new Necromancy system (it is INSANE) and I think the Shard items are new... Shard items have low AR/damage values, but high enchant values.

No, Shard items are in 3. Is the updated Necromancy worth getting 4? And if so, is http://www.cs.okstate.edu/~woodsc/mtt/mtt4b.zip the correct URL for the newest version of 4?

Well... it's incredibly cool, but not incredibly useful... the skeletons are not very good.

I love this mod dude. You made it so that magicka can be interesting to all those "hack and gut" medievalists out there. I always thought morrowind magicka lacked something and you added the elements that were much needed. Kudos to you dude!!



Your necromancy system is freaking awesome, with that gothic candle effect. Hope you put out another one, see yah around.

Well, whoever wants to test a little update to it can do so by downloading it here.

Though, this is just a test... so please save your game before using it, and please don't save over any of your games while using it. I'd just like to get some feedback on how often trinkets show up, and whether or not this fixes the trinket take over bug for you (if you were experiencing it beforehand).

If you were using MTT before loading this, I recommend entering the command "StartScript cw_mtt_menu" and using the only option available at the moment.

Just to let you know what I was thinking when I edited it...

I lowered the rate that Iouns Stones(and therefore disguises, since they're in the same list), Sigils, Emblems, Sarah Stones, Rings, and Gems show up in bandit, smuggler and tomb containers. This was because - to the best of my knowledge - those items last forever (other than the Sarah Stones), and once you have one, it will never go away, unless you go off and sell it.

I lowered Sarah Stones and Gems in those lists because Sarah Stones now appear on atronachs (fire on flame atronachs, frost on frost, and shock on storm), and Gems now appear with other gems that were originally in Morrowind.

Everything is still completely script based, since that is what Chris would undoubtedly want.

Finally, but most importantly, I would like to thank Chris for making what I consider to be one of the absolute best mods available. It's certainly my favorite.


edit: I took the link down because I'd rather wait for Chris to show up and let me know if this is ok or not. If anyone would like to try it, send me a pm. I just don't like the idea of posting a public link to his edited work.

This post has been edited by Habile: Apr 2 2005, 04:09 PM

sounds quite cool...I should download it...but is Mw+Bloodmon enough to play it or do I also need Tribunal?

Tribunal is one of the dependencies. However, I'm pretty sure that it can be used with bloodmoon alone, that is, if bloodmoon adds all the scripting functions that tribunal uses. I'll try removing the dependency and see if it still works.

edit: Shucks, 89th in line at fileplanet. Oh well, I'll be downloading the dependency toolkit soon enough, though it might take even longer to download. By the way, are you interested in downloading the "patch" for MTT if it doesn't require Trib? I've worked out most of the bugs. There's just one left, and it shouldn't get in anyone's way. If you open a container that has a MTT levelled list in it, and close it without taking anything, the container resets if you become either level 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, or 19. So, it's pretty much harmless.

This post has been edited by Habile: Apr 3 2005, 01:24 AM

Okay, I'm going to have to do this through a different program, because I keep getting bumped back to the 90s on the waiting list. Not too much longer...

edit: It does seem to work, though there are a whole bunch of errors popping up. They're just referring to missing NPCs and a couple goblins, but the scripts do work. If you want, I could edit out the tribunal references. It shouldn't make a difference in how the mod runs, other than not adding trinkets to goblins and Trib NPCs.

This post has been edited by Habile: Apr 3 2005, 01:55 AM

that would be great, thanks.